I created this spot for anyone who has strong feelings about what they've read and would like to express an opinion or share their feelings in the form of a comment for others to read. Leaving what might be considered an opposing opinion or negative comment is quite acceptable and I encourage everyone who reads my story to leave a comment whether it's favorable or not. Opposing what I've written is perfectly acceptable because this story was my journey and was written from my memories and feelings. I don't expect, need or want everyone or anyone to agree with the details of this story. I believe everyone should be heard because everyone has a voice. Everyone has a story! Regardless of where any of us lie on the spectrum about Kinsman Hall, we all have a right to be heard. Always remember that and don't sit in silence! Let's have a honest discussion about Kinsman Hall. I truly look forward to reading everyone's comments.
ALL comments will be published upon approval. This is the only way to keep SPAM and other unwanted/unrelated commenters out of this blog.
Thank you for participating!
Karen, I've just started reading this and am spell-bound already. This will likely be the first of many comments. Clearly you were aware of a divide between the "common-folk" and the "anointed". I was never even aware of that divide.
ReplyDeletePerhaps from your perspective at that time no divide existed. In hindsight, through my eyes do you see the divide?
DeleteHonestly, I was and remain oblivious to much of the divide. At that time in my life, I was not yet sexually active. I had crushes but the prospect of a "relationship" was beyond me and therefore was thoroughly I unaware of the divide. One of the reasons I found your words so intriguing was that your KH experience was much different than mine. You describe yourself as (my words) politically or relationally aware and quite savvy. I was not. I did feel some sadness for you, misplaced or not, because your awareness of the divide created in you a cynicism toward the program I never had
DeleteI'm sure each person who lived at Kinsman Hall has a unique story to tell. You have to remember the story is being told by a jaded 15-16 year old. My head was pretty warped from living on the streets. I tried to remain in that mindset throughout my endeavor. It was difficult, emotional and terribly insightful. To be honest, I felt some sadness for me also. No child growing up should have to have bear the cruelties of dysfunction. It's sad that our lives and our life choices lead any of us to Kinsman Hall.
DeleteI agree Karen. Each person does have a story to tell about that experience. Reading yours was for me a reminder of that fact. The differences between our stories is one of the reasons I found yours so intoxicating. Our two stories are quite different. I wish everybody we know felt empowered as you did to write their story. I'd already begun writing mine, motivated in part by reading yours, although I began it before reading yours.
DeleteYour 2nd point is equally powerful about what "no child should have to endure". My response to that is that while it's certainly true, that's not the world we live in. Most parents have little awareness and knowledge of how to parent. The skill that eludes many parents is the ability to listen That's where the injustice begins.
We all know the story of how the egg gets fertilized by a single determined sperm, and that the others were not strong enough so they simply die. I think it's a partially similar crapshoot as children grow into adulthood. Factors intervene. Poor choices intervene. Absence of parental leadership intervenes. But basically, not everyone is supposed to make it. I recently wrote a short piece about this called "The Dark Room". Anyway, enough for now. Good to talk to you Karen
Because we all are different, our stories are different and how we perceive things. I was highly defiant and resentful especially after my bogus GM. I never quite go over the lack of investigation that went into that before I found myself on stage with the house yelling at me. Before the GM I was doing okay but after that...well, that's all in the past. Right?
DeleteIndeed, Karen. Your story about that GM made me really sad that that was allowed to happen. Right behind that sadness though was anger. During our KH years we were inculcated into the belief that Staff was infinitely wise and had our best interests at heart. My time in the Program gave me no reason to doubt them, but reading your accounts helped me to understand that there were in fact many… with your GM the most egregious by far.
DeleteHave you put any thought as to how you might handle that whole thing using the wisdom you have now? I think there’s value in doing that because when one experiences an event so unjust, the tendency is to adopt victimhood as a response. Doing so is certainly reasonable, although not terribly productive. As I write this, I’m reminded of an experience that although not similar, it does rhyme, involving my father and my sister. I could share it if anybody’s interested but it boiled down to me witnessing a horribly unjust event to which I didn’t react as I think I should have. I live with that and have even created ways I should have reacted if I had another crack at it
Not long ago Jill and I started watching the various videos done about Elan School. Honestly, it was scary how much like Kinsman Hall that place was and it lasted til around 2010ish. That blows my mind! Can you even imagine KH still being in existence today?
DeleteYes, the Elan School videos were very disturbing. KH did everything Elan did with one exception - the boxing. I can't remember what they called it. And I believe in the beginning of KH the boxing was done but then nixed, probably by BH. While I was there (1971 - 1974) on one time were the boxing gloves taken out and it was for a boxing match between 2 girls who were having issues with each other. It was not allowed to get out of hand and was kept very short - nothing like the boxing matched at Elon. The names of the 2 girls are on the tip of my tongue. Will post their names as soon as I remember!
DeleteI'm assuming the comment written by "Anonymous" is Jill. Hi Jill :) Yes, the boxing in Elan was a trip. When I watched it I immediately thought of what KH would have been like with "boxing" and wondered why it wasn't incorporated there. I didn't know that it was actually used at one time. It's probably best that it wasn't kept around.
DeleteGod, there's so much gold here!
ReplyDeleteFor me, the marathon experiences were both impactful and insightful in the extreme. Indeed, since KH I embarked upon a life marked by years-long explorations in philosophy as well as further group encounters with both Lifespring and Insight in the 80s and 90s. Indeed, after Lifespring a group of friends and I did our own groups for awhile. But through every group of which I was a part, the inescapable dilemma that Karen speaks of in her introduction came back around again. Why is the high from the therapeutic group experience so short-lived? Why does it dissipate usually within days? This fall is especially jarring when we were led to believe that that high would be a doorway to a new life. Indeed that unfulfilled expectation itself led to some crashing and burning. Now, at the tender age of 67, I understand why. If Karen hasn't covered it in sections of this blog I've not yet read, I look forward to the chance to talk about it
Thank you for the smile you brought to my face by referring to my words as gold. I'm sure there are many who would disagree. I'm glad you got something positive from the marathon experiences at Kinsman Hall. I look forward to any and all discussions. I haven't published a link to this blog on the Kinsman Hall Facebook page as of yet because I still need to do some editing and also, want to add a few things to the story. I just need to find the right spots to make the additions.
DeleteI'll postpone any discussion of the "falling high" but just let me say this about your work. If you'd like any feedback on revisions, you might make, I may be able to help. But if so we should talk privately about that. If not, never mind. Let's have some more pie!
DeleteKaren, hi I wrote up an explanation of the reasons and lessons to be taken from marathon highs dissipating. If you like I could send it to you and you could post it, or not.
DeleteI've read up to the chapter where you describe how you started the KH board and the uncertainty that caused you to hesitate at first until Ned supported you. I don't know how aware you are of the enormity of what you did in pulling that trigger, Karen. I read the messages you received on that first board from others of our KH friends. And, I remember the sensations I felt when I found the site in 2009. It was like the heavens had opened up for me. I'd found the connection you'd already built to a piece of myself that was finally allowed to come to shore. I hope you recognize what you've created as an affirmation of who you are, especially given the defiant little 16 year old you were in that previous life.
Love and respect, Justin
Thank you Karen for starting the Kinsman hall sight. I feel the same as Justin, When I found it, I felt such relief, that the year of my life at kinsman hall was real. I had tucked it away like a dirty little secret. Only my family and closest friends knew that I was there, I carried a shame inside. Starting the kinsman hall page set me free.
Delete"Anonymous" you forgot to identify who you are so I could thank you for your comment, but I hope you come back and do so later. I'd like to hear about your year at KH. You're among friends here and one last thing I'd like to say is that this whole project was such a labor of love that I can't even begin to express it in words.
DeleteOf course you can send me what you've written. I'd love to read it. To be honest with you at times it feels like helping people reconnect was a big mistake and other times, I'm overwhelmed by the outpouring of love. I just wish I had done it a little sooner than 2002. There's many people I wish I had been able to connect with before they passed away. Just another regret! I guess we all have regrets, don't we?
ReplyDeleteHi again, You've said several times that part of you thinks it was a big mistake to create the board and I've always wondered what you meant by that. Would you be willing to give voice to the part of yourself that holds those regrets? Would love to hear that point of view. Regarding your wish you'd begun earlier I can only infer that you feel that way so you could have included those who died in the interim. Is that it? If so, that's understandable. But you know, something I know now that I didn't have the wisdom to understand when I was younger is that if things in any part of a person's life could have been different they would have been. We live the only life we could have lived given who we were at every point of our development. After leaving KH, I briefly got back into drugs- pot mostly, then got arrested twice for poundage. Yea I was dealing out of my SUNY dorm room. I was fortunate to get off with probation. Then in 1978 I moved to CA to turn my life around. I finally graduated from a Cal State school and was on track to make real my plan to become a lawyer. I took and did brilliantly on my LSAT. I remember the moment in that school cafeteria opening my notification of my LSAT score. I couldn't frickin' believe it. I cried. But guess what. I never went to law school. In a word, I chickened out. Obviously I've thought about this many times since trying to make sense of it, and I have. I lived the only life that was available to me given who I was. As Jack would have said "get into the hate for what you didn't do. Now switch it to grief". Based on results I made the only choice available to me.
ReplyDeleteI regret it due to all the turmoil that it caused at various times. I also regret it due to some people reconnecting and getting hurt by it. Yes, I regret not doing the website earlier because there's several people I would have liked to have had the chance to reconnect with before they passed away. I'm proud of you for turning your life around and it's never too late to go to law school...do it now! What branch of law interests you most?
DeleteLet me ask you this, Karen. Is turmoil always a bad thing? Part of the admiration I have for this work is that you shared your truth about a significant part of your life. Doing so requires courage and resolve. Indeed, your treatise is not short. In fact, it’s exhaustive, meaning complete. I’ve wanted to ask you if you kept a journal during your KH years because your memory of the procedures is far more complete than I could have conjured.
DeleteBut back on point. I don’t know who got hurt and precisely why but they’ll get over it, or they won’t. In reading A House Divided I could see in your writing that you were wrestling with what you should reveal, and what to leave out. In fact at several junctures, I wanted you to reveal more. I can only guess that the reason you didn’t was because you held a very real concern for the people you were writing about. The fact that you held that concern and exercised it as often as you did is testimony to the level of conscience you brought to the process. I hope you allow yourself to get over your regret for not pleasing everybody.
What you lose by hanging onto the regret is the ability to fully revel in the beauty of what you’ve done. Every time somebody tells you how meaningful your work is, your mind jumps to your regret and you cannot genuinely accept the compliment. You always have the “yea but” in the back of your mind which robs you of the good feeling. In fact, in the final marathon group where we went through those 105 cycles, one of them was “Not being able to accept compliments” and you’re living the pessimistic side of that cycle with your regret
Turmoil can be a destructive force, but it also can bring people closer together through adversity. The choice is entirely ours.
DeleteNo, I never kept a journal while I was at KH. All the things I wrote about are firmly etched into my memory. People have always remarked about my memory and the details I seem to keep stored in it.
You're right about people either getting over their hurt or not. Yes, I did wrestle with choosing my words at times while writing my story. Many times I rewote things that came across as too harsh. My object was not to purposely hurt anyone. I just wanted to tell my story through my eyes and feelings. I hope anyone who reads my story can take my journey with me and feel what I felt...right or wrong. Of course, everyone else's journey wasn't exactly like mine. I suppose there are many who might read what I've written and wonder if I was at a different Kinsman Hall than the one they called home.
The junctures you refer to about wanting me to reveal more, you'll have to indicate them to me (you can always email me) and perhaps when I do some revisions I'll go deeper into them. My concern wasn't so much about pleasing anyone but in hurting feelings and causing pain. For some my story might rip the scab off a wound that hasn't fully healed.
I think most of my regrets center around the people who initially "discovered" the KH website I built and for various reasons chose to no longer participate. I also feel bad about the people who participated and needlessly treaded on other people's feelings. I know I can't control how others behave nor do I want to. As for my own feelings...oh yes, they got crushed, but I recovered. It just took me awhile. It isn't easy to stand alone and be maligned by others. From the beginning at times I was threatened by a few, had my character attacked and was told I needed to turn over what I had created to someone else. Most didn't see what went on behind the scenes. Maybe all of it brought up old, bad feelings about the GM I discussed. I hate to admit this but there were times I felt totally alone, but I worked through those feelings. I kept coming back because this is important to me and I wasn't going to let anyone take that away from me. Occasionally, I just needed time to lick my wounds and get back on track. Whatever happened, I always expected people to conduct themselves in a way of being courteous of others. The negativity that ensued at times made me wonder if I ever did know the culprits. I know people change, but to me being mean-spirited is needless. There are ways of expressing yourself to get your point across without ripping anyone's heart from their chest. I guess I had high expectations and forgot that we all are just imperfect human beings. I know there's things I could have handled better, but as they say "hindsight is 20/20."
I think turmoil can also be a force of cleansing. As always, truth lies in a distinction between two forms. When one person imposes themselves onto somebody else bellowing forth rage that is their own, not of the person who's receiving the rage, it's destructive and needless. Your GM was an example of that. You had done nothing to make that necessary. Yet you were broad-sided with consequences that were not yours to bear. Your world was needlessly shaken. Through no fault of your own, your ability to trust your environment was stolen!
DeleteNevertheless, when you hold up a mirror to a friend, showing them an image of themselves, it has the power as you say, to bring people closer together.
If, in your effort to tell your story, you reveal what somebody else did, you give them a chance to look at their own behavior in hindsight and make a fresh determination. The person confronted can resist the confrontation, which tells you they're probably still doing that behavior. Or they can acknowledge what happened, and say some variation of "given what I knew, I did the best I could." It's not unlike giving a genuine thank you after a pull up.
Regarding my revelation of where you might have revealed more, I'd like to do that when it's time. Indeed I took notes on the whole thing!
After I created the KH website years ago, I was able to locate Danita. She had made a life for herself in Michigan. We chatted online, emailed each other and even talked on the phone, but the issue of my GM never came up nor did she ever participate on the KH messageboard. I encouraged her to do so many times but I guess she had her reasons for not interacting with others. She just never disclosed what those reasons were to me. I felt bad when she passed away because we had never fully cleared the air, but I think she knew I forgave her without me having to say the words. After all wasn't it said that "love means never having to say you're sorry?"
DeleteYou made me chuckle about you taking notes on the story. I hope you didn't make too many marks in red ink! I'm looking forward to reading your notes and welcome anyone else's as well.
To answer your question, yes I wish I had said something to Danita. I just didn't know what to say or how to say it. If she was broadsided by it, I never knew because she left shortly after that. I think I may have been on contract when she left so I didn't notice it until after my contract had ended.
DeleteI do know she had other mishaps with people in the house over false guilt she had copped to during a guilt session. I would think after that happened, staff would have been a little more astute regarding her behavior.
I'm sure Monte was totally caught off guard when that happened and I'm sure it was done for that purpose. A little drama goes a long way and what better time to bring people into a the controlled evironment of the marathon room than after something as explosive as a GM.
Wow! The Baker's Dozen...now, there's a phrase I haven't heard in many, many years. I wonder what ever became of Brett Baker. I attempted to track him down a few times with no success.
Brett was my actual big brother when I came in but I don't think he was in the group. He was already a 10 month resident by then. I think it was called Baker's Dozen because there were 13 of us. I think Kathy M was also in that group
DeleteKathy M was my big sister...learned a lot from her and always appreciated it. Okay, so Brett wasn't responsible for the name but it certainly was a memorable name. I keep trying to think up names for the 3 marathons I was in but I draw a blank. That last one was a real attention getter and I thought it was never going to end. After 3 months in the Marathon Cabin, even the dust and cobwebs were ready to leave!
DeleteYea you talked a bit about that group in your story. God! Three month is a whole season! That brings to mind movies from "The Time Machine" where time outside passes but things inside remain the same!
DeleteIt was summer when we went up to the cabin and it was winter when we came back to the house. It lasted over 100 days. You talk about stir crazy! They did give us a break once and we got the go outside to walk around. I took lots of pictures that day. Oh the memories!
DeleteGood morning, Karen. I'll post my explanation here. You can make it available it or not depending on your judgment. This is something I've wanted to say for some time. Your work gave me a kind of permission to finally say it.
ReplyDeleteStates are not Stages
part 1
For the past fifty years I’ve held in great reverence Dean Hepper and Jack Palmer for their work building the marathon therapy groups I was privileged to be a part of during my 27 months at Kinsman Hall. Half a century on, I’m certain that we were beneficiaries of genuine brilliance applied to psychological group therapy which I am greatly saddened was never allowed to develop beyond the walls of that marathon cabin.
I also remember Dean and Jack’s excited preview announcements before each new marathon breakthrough that this latest work would remove the dark parts of our psyches they referred to as “the mechanism”. This was the part that took hold after puberty from the window experience which determined for the rest of our lives the strength and structure of our abandonment issues. [Footnote: The window experience according to the theory was the event that occurred for each of us around the age of puberty which produced abandonment trauma sufficient to set the cast for the lifelong attitudes that would emerge from it.] To this day, I’m not certain whether they actually believed mechanism-removal was possible or whether I simply heard what I wanted to hear. Nevertheless, in those promises, expectations were set up which were never realistic.
Indeed, when events unfolding in our lives don’t match the script we have written in our heads, it can feel like a crushing defeat colliding with the life we’ve constructed. In response, the person facing the dashed hope will direct their wrath either onto themselves as penance for their own unworthiness or onto others in blame, seeking scapegoats in an attempt to salvage lost innocence.
Beginning with marathon groups at Kinsman Hall at the age of 17, I later went on to participate in group therapy in Los Angeles at Lifespring and then Insight during the ‘80s—about 25 such groups in total until my mid-30s. The underlying promise made in each and every group was that this experience would fix me; that upon a bed of good feelings, I could now find the tools necessary to discover a fresh version of myself. Such promises stated or implied are powerful because they suggest that the inner legitimacy we seek is available with less pain than believed possible.
Then from the moment each group ended and over the days that followed, I experienced emotional highs and well-being which caused my life challenges to seem manageable. After a group, I was able to recognize unmistakably illuminated pathways for how to render even the most stubbornly destructive habits surmountable. Nevertheless, after a few days passed, the ebullience faded, and with it any faith that what I just experienced was real and attainable. In fact, I felt worse, either because I thought I’d been scammed or because I was too clumsy to make anything work. Such disappointment invariably affected my ability to trust myself, building in me innate skepticism about whether change would ever be possible.
You certainly have been busy! I definitely understand and agree with how the jublilation of having gone through a marathon faded quickly. I think change is something a person has to work at one day at a time.
DeleteI've got to apologize for not responding sooner. I've been under the weather and not up to doing anything on the computer.
DeleteNo need to apologize, Karen. We do what we can do, and no more is expected. That's one of the cool things about getting old: you learn to respect and heed your own schedule without having to believe you live on somebody else's schedule
DeleteBTW I have a blog at Substack called Jungle "Navigation". Anybody is welcome to come look. It's active. I write one more more pieces a month. I think I have about 6 up there so far. It's free and the address is
Deletehttps://justinweiner.substack.com/
I'll definitely check out your blog. Thank you for sharing the link to it. I too have a blog...been at it since 2004, but I haven't written anything on it for awhile.
DeleteStates and Stages- part 2
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile over the course of my life, I’ve read my share of philosophy as well as accounts of human accomplishments in myriad fields. I’ve read of people who’ve dedicated years of their lives developing disciplined spiritual practices. I’ve read with great interests about steps to enlightenment, and how each step leads to the next. I like that I am able to understand the process even though actually following that recipe seems quite difficult. I’ve read of scientists who’ve managed to meld their right-brain imaginations with their left-brain intellect in pursuit of discoveries for which there’d previously been little foundation. For example, Einstein’s re-conception of gravity, time, and light are verifiable truths which boggle the mind. There are so many examples of human accomplishment from people who’ve dedicated themselves to the development of ideas they assembled piece by piece through hard work.
In order to experience spiritual one-ness, or to discover relativity, or any one of a number of accomplishments that made human advancement possible, one must work through a number of stages. A stage is a marker measuring one’s evolving ability to master a skill to which they feel drawn. A first-year engineering student isn’t going to have the knowledge and disciple to build a skyscraper nor is a first-year medical student able to perform surgery. Stages are sets of sequentially ordered steps which, with patience and dedication result in genuine mastery. Once reached, the vantage point afforded from that stage cannot be taken away because wisdom and expertise are functions of experience and perseverance.
But states are not stages.
If I spend 5 days, a week or a month in a therapy room with qualified, effective therapists, I learn a great deal about myself and I may even have the experience of “visiting the proverbial mountain”. I get a sense of who I am without my usual baggage. I feel like I’ve lost 10 lbs. I emerge from the therapy room to hugs and kisses, tears and flowers. I’m able to feel the presence of these wonderful people anew. My high will last a few days and then it will fade because it’s a state, not a stage.
The quick look I’m given of myself as if through a mirror, gazing at an uncompromised version of myself is a peek behind the curtain which doesn’t entitle me to remain behind that curtain. A state is just a glimpse, like breadcrumbs leading to Nirvana; like seeing a powerful movie and being moved by it, while a stage is having the expertise to be the person featured in the movie who possesses in real life those formidable skills. A state is just a dose of inspiration, maybe even a roadmap but never a plane ticket. States offer an exotic look at a potential not yet achieved but achievable. A state is a call to roll up my sleeves and get to work on the issues presented in the group. A state is not a gift but an invitation to play on a higher level
Maybe the reason group leaders don’t tell you about the difference between states and stages is that they’re not that clear themselves about those differences. Through much of my own group work, I never really understood the difference, so that once the post-group high faded, I mistook my fall as an indictment rather than an invitation to a new life with new rules.
When you speak of steps to enlightenment, it makes me think of John Schlemmer. He might be a good resource for that. I find all that sort of stuff fascinating, yet I tend to go off the beaten path and just do my own thing. It probably is from lack of discipline. Staying focused doesn't seem to be my forte...never has! I look at it as being one of my many downfalls. It seems I grow bored easily and I'm off to the next thing. Completion of most projects escapes me...always has.
DeleteI appreciate you taking the time to write all of this and it has given me much food for thought. Perhaps you should start your own online encounter sessions for people seeking a path to self improvement. Just a thought!
You're most likely correct about the inability of group leaders to distinguish between states and stages. It seems you have one up on them and have given this matter great thought. I think if a group leader was honest enough to point out the difference in the beginning as you have here, many people might not see the relevance of therapy. After all most people like the "feel good" part but might be reluctant to do any hard work that dredges up negative feelings and the ugliness that resides within each of us. Change is difficult and requires both external and internal reinforcement. Unfortunately, not all people have that hand in hand support system.
Karen,You have made KH vividly alive for me and I'm only through the preface! I relate to so much in your experience, only I didn't come in with a drug problem. My parents had split up, I was trying to find my way, in love with a boy who'd been sent to the Hall through the courts for pot posession I think. He went first to Hillsdale, we were from Hudson NY, I saw him when I could. I didn't drive I was 15 then. He came home, once he went through the program and came back for me, and off I went. My father even dropped us off to hitchike to Jackman at the Mass Pike entrance in Hillsdale! My parents were so trusting in me that they thought this was okay. I had my issues for sure, I was pretty wild, loved to party, hated school, I wanted to be with him, so off I went. What a surprise when we got to Maine after a long, long day hitchiking. The first part of the journey started with me getting my thumb caught in the door of the rig. We were picked up by a semi tractor trailer. Not a broken thumb but it was incredibly painful made worse by the bouncing cab ride. I don't remember how far he took us or how we actually made it the rest of the way, I do remember the nightime darkness enclosing us as we drove down the the long road to the Hall. Holy shit I was 16, free from my sad, self absorbed parents. We got in very late. I was brought up to the girls dorm, given a bed. I was told in the morning, that I was on a BAN with him, had to wear a stocking cap and go sit on a chair.... to be continued.
ReplyDeleteFor me, the Hall, the whole experience and the people I went through it with hold a special place in me, my heart , such an unuusal part of my past. An experince that was, and has, propelled me along with it's after effects and questions and memories. Searching for some pople who were near and dear to me then, people I felt close to having opened up and survived the experince we went through with.
Karen, thank you for bringing us back together and creating this space and for your story and they way you tell it! XO Anne
Hi Anne! I think KH holds a place in each of our hearts. How could it not? You really don't need to thank me for anything. If I hadn't created a KH website years ago, I'm sure someone else would have eventually. It's funny how after creating the website and people started finding it, I was asked to relenquish the website to the Hepper family. After getting over the initial shock of that request, my feelings on that matter were that I created the website, did all the maintenance on it and asorbed all the expenses to keep the website and the domain name alive, so I figured rightfully it was mine to control and not someone else's. I may be wrong but I just figured if any of the Heppers had wanted to build a Kinsman Hall website they would have done it themselves or had someone else do it if they didn't know how. To be honest with you, it hurt my feelings and I felt as if I was being pushed aside as if my contribution didn't matter. I got over it, but never seemed to feel one percent kosha about it. Perhaps me not turning it over was selfish, but the KH website was my baby and I felt as protective of it as any parent might feel.
DeleteAnne, I'd like to hear more about your story. I think it's one worth sharing. We all have such different stories to tell and I don't think many of us knew each others full stories while we were at KH. Who had time to chitchat about the circumstances surrounding why we found ourselves living at KH? And if we did find the time, that sort of thing was considered a "war story" and not permitted. There's so many people I'd love to hear their stories, but I can only encourage them and hope over time they comes to this safe space to share them.
I know bans were used on people who knew each other before KH, but were they used on the people who were siblings there like all the Marino brothers, or Pegi and Tom Cohill, Jerry and Larry Hoover or Jerry and Mike Sellick or any of the others?
It seems incredible that in many ways our parents were much more lenient than what we probably were as parents. I know I definitely wouldn't have let my 16 old daughter hitchhike anywhere. I laughed after I wrote that because anyone knowing my daughter would know she isn't the type to have done something like that. Princesses don't hitchhike! lol When none of my kids ever acted as horrible as I did, I often wondered if I had brought the wrong children home from the hospital! lol
For me, Karen's work was a reminder that we each and all have a voice, despite many of us growing up in households where we got the message that our thoughts and feelings simply did not matter. In such a critical environment, the part of our psyche that is our voice goes to sleep. We stop thinking too deeply because nobody really cares anyway.
DeleteSo here we are 50 years later, reflecting back on events that were many different things for each of us, but I think for all, KH was a time of transition, of change, an end to the life we had come to inhabit, and a doorway into a new space. The stories that come out of life transitions are the most beautiful of all because they contain hope. Every movie you've ever loved was about a life transition because they are where the gold is buried.
And Karen led, not by suggestion but by example. She modeled what is available to each of us. Writing a treatise isn't necessary. Karen's done the heavy lift with her phenomenal memory by sketching out the logistics of what we lived. This including some of her own personal stories, some positively gut-wrenching. She reminded us we all have such stories lurking in our backgrounds. In so doing she's created a playground for other voices to join in and harmonize. Thank you Anne, thumb included, for your path to KH to begin your own transition. Yours was a vivid image of what hope looks like.
I want to give a heartfelt thank you to ANYONE who shares their story. It takes courage to open up and to bare one's soul to an audience who once played such an integral part of their lives. I'd like to make a suggestion. As I incorporated part of Jill's story into this one, I'd like to do so with others. For instance, Justin I think it might make a magnificant addition to include your story about the on the spot GM you described or anything else you have cooking. People can either email here or use my personal email (karengogginsmiller@yahoo.com) and I'll work whatever you want to include into this story. It really is important to me to not only hear from others but to include their voices along with mine. I'd like to mold this into not just my story but "our" story for all to read. I really think it's a story worth telling.
DeleteMany of my memories of Kinsman Hall had been long buried until I read this story.I entered Kinsman Hall in Hillsdale and left from Jackman. Karen, I remember you well and want to commend you for being brave enough for coming forward to speak the truth about a subject that touched so many of our lives. What we went through wasn't easy. It was painful and brutal at times. I saw things I wish I hadn't seen. Am I a better person for having gone through the Kinsman Hall program? Like you, Karen I have to say that it kept me alive and that was a major feat in itself.
ReplyDeleteI remember you were close to Stacy. You probably won't remember talking to me about him once. I always thought senior staff was wrong for keeping you guys apart. My God, all anyone had to do was look at the way Stacy looked at you to know that there was something real between you two.. He beamed whenever you were around. I guess Dean thought they wouldn't be able to break him if Stacy was happy.so they did what they did to many people there. They took everything from him. They knew exactly what they were doing as they took steps to break him down. You were a distraction. As long as he had you they weren't going to break him completely. Didn't you ever wonder what happened while you were in your marathon? I can't help but feel that everyone was nothing but a lab experiment that went awry.
I wish I had the courage to use my name to sign this but I was on staff. To this day I fear reprisal if I speak out against the Heppers or Kinsman Hall so I will remain in the shadows to show you support. Please forgive me for being a coward.
Anonymous Staff Member: First, thank you for your support and I do understand you being reluctant about revealing your identity. It's okay. There's nothing to forgive. The only person I remember talking to about Stacy is Mike Morra and since he's dead I know you can't be him. If you get to the point of wanting to talk to me, you can contact me through email and I'll give you my cell number. As for how Stacy was treated. Yes, he was definitely abused and during my 100+ day marathon I had no idea what was going on at the house nor was I ever told what had happened when I returned from the marathon. Dean told me while I was in the marathon they were going to leave Stacy alone. Was that a lie?
DeleteKaren, I know Mike was your friend but he had a bug up his ass for Stacy, Bernie, Rick and I don't remember the other guy's name. He wasn't at The Hall for very long. As for Dean lying, are you seriously asking me that question? Look, I'll give it to you straight up or as straight up as I can. Whatever happened to you in the marathon room dwarfed in comparison to what was going on at the house in those hundred days. Stacy Brown would have walked over coals for you and you walked out of the marathon room with Bruce Angleman. I'd say Dean scored a total victory in breaking Stacy that day. I am not trying to be mean or hurt your feelings. I just want to point out that you got played thinking you were protecting Stacy and Stacy got hurt many times over at the hands of Dean and his minions. Dean was a master at head games and manipulating people. Yes, we were a lab experiment and sadly so many of us are screwed up now or dead as a result of it. I am sorry for the pain you must have felt writing this story but thank you for finally bringing it to light. Someone needed to because it has stayed buried too long and the lies have lived on far far too long.
DeleteAnonymous Staff Member: For the past few days I've been racking my brain trying to figure out who you are...I just can't remember talking to anyone about Stacy except Mike Morra. The other person you're thinking about is Mike Orsini and you're correct that he wasn't in the program for very long. If you really want to thank me for writing this story, you can email me and that would more than show me any gratitude you might have. I have lots of questions I'd love to ask you.
DeleteKaren, I wish I could talk to you but Kinsman Hall is still protected by a thin veil of secrecy and a duplicitous code of silence. People are expected to say only good things about their experiences and not the truth. I have said too much already and fear it might come back to haunt me in some way if certain people figure out who I am. I wish more people would step up and tell their stories as you have and then maybe I would feel more comfortable about talking to you. Please keep encouraging people to come forward and to tell the truth. Thank you for being brave and honest.
DeleteHello, Anonymous. I'm checking in here today after (clearly) being away too long. I missed what's been shared between you and Karen. I read it eagerly and felt a tingly sensation through my whole body. I don't think you need to reveal your identity unless and until it feels right. But for now we should give you a name, no? I always thought "Cleo" was a beautiful name. May I call you that? My name back then was "Judd". Perhaps you remember me.
DeleteI've shared stories here, which are recorded in Karen's Chapter 19. Have you looked at those other stories? I have more. Ideally 50 years on, more of our KH friends would be willing to share what they lived. Clearly we're all getting old but I feel like the distance we now have from the people we were grants us permission to speak. Otherwise we risk taking to the grave elements of who we were in our youth we’d have secretly liked to share. Like you, I came into the program in Hillsdale and left from Jackman, so I kinda feel like you’re my sister from a different mister. We must have known each other. I’d like to echo Karen’s overtures to you. We were all in this together and those who treated us and those we loved unfairly are mostly dead.
I'd like to invite you to add your voice to a conversation made vibrant only through the voices of people who were there. Adding your voice doesn’t require we know your identity. For example, do you remember me? Information usually withheld from us in life includes never knowing how we're perceived by others.
So can I pose some questions? Clearly you don’t have to answer if you don’t want to. Your words piggyback on Karen's which describe a lot of shoddy treatment going on at KH wielded by people granted great power who weren't psychologically equipped to use it fairly.
Was there anything you experienced at KH that you consider positive and psychologically nourishing? Also what were your circumstances which caused coming to Hillsdale the best choice for you at the time?
I’m going to stop now. I basically wanted to introduce myself to you, welcome you to a family you’re already a member of, and to further engage you as much as feels right.
best,
Judd (or Justin)